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Friday, September 09, 2005

Man Plays God

Here is a forum debate I had with someone recently:


Fact is, you don't know my position on abortion, yet.

I just been asking questions.

Like the thing about Bob, which was answered by questioning the validity of the questioner rather than simply answering the question. and believe me, I know plenty much about the biblical view.

And then there was the "undifferentiated tissue" thing... Sorry, but as a student of biology (i.e. one who has pursued the degree of Biology) there is no significant difference IMHO between a blastula and a mass of bone marrow except which gene programs are active at that moment. One can turn on the programs for building bodies in a nucleated somatic stem cell under the right conditions. see "Stem cells. Embryo-free techniques gain momentum.
Vogel, G, Science, 2005 Jul 8, 309(5732):240-1"

So then if a cloned somatic tissue cell can be turn into an embryo, that embryo implanted into a mother, then subsequently born or aborted, is it a whole new person than the one who donated the tissue?

My questions go to the heart of the debate IMHO:

Considering what is being discovered every day about how whole organisms are formed and develop, are the conceptions we have about what it means to be human/alive/sentient accurate or germane to the evidence being discovered by science?

One must define human, alive, and person before one can claim to enforce regulatory actions regarding those things. To assume everyone shares the same definition of "person" for instance is not realistic or practical. (all claims that "well, When you stand before God you'll know the meaning" fall flat because it is not as evident that that view is obviously accurate either, btw)

So, is every sperm sacred?

If I clone a piece of rib (pun intended) and turn it into a zygote which eventually gets delivered in a hospital room,

what/who is is?


My Response

Is every sperm sacred? You'll have to ask the guy upstairs about that one. I'm not qualified enough. I believe what follows will help define the boundaries though.

When you experiment with human life to shape and define it as you see fit, you lose touch with makes us human. I believe that is why you are asking these questions.

Instead of getting into a bunch of intellectual mumbo-jumbo I will keep it simple.

If you put a human being in a Petri dish, a test tube or any other man made device, or if you clone, create or otherwise manufacture a human being unnaturally, you are playing God.

There are man-made devices, like incubators and other devices which are used to help natural born/conceived humans. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with those.

Scientists are just grown up children who want to play with human legos instead of plastic ones. Scientists and doctors have to be watched over, because they will go over to the dark side.
Let's not forget the Hippocratic oath which was changed to accommodate the winds of change.

The old Oath included:

"I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art."

This is no longer in the Oath.

I know they were swearing to their Gods and Goddesses back then, but that's not the point. The point is they knew a doctor was supposed to protect and save lives, not take them away.

You say "One must define human, alive, and person before one can claim to enforce regulatory actions regarding those things". Not to be insulting, but that is a child's argument. It is to ignore the basics and defer to the complicated for the purpose of confusing the argument.

We don't have to "define" a human being or the process. Sperm meets egg, a human is created. The natural human life cycle is about 9 months going through 4 primary phases, after which a child is born.

It's what little children learn in school. Why is this so complicated to scientists, doctors and abortion supporters?

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