What if it was me? Final Answer
This is my last reply to this debate thread. This is exactly why I say to proLifers don't waste your time debating with those who believe in death. You will rarely "win" the debate. It will just go on forever. We who want abortion to end must unite and stop the debates with others. Every keystroke and every breath expelled in nonsensical debates slow us down. I usually only answer these types of challenges once. I chose to go one more round here.
Join us at http://www.marchtogether.com for the Monthly Call for Life. We will end this argument through our unity, our voices and our keyboards!
The first question I have to ask is why are you in a Catholic newsgroup? Your hatred for God is obvious and yet you are here to read what those who believe in God have to say. You quote scripture as a weapon from a "book of fables".
You cannot be a believer of God and want to kill babies at the same time. Human beings in the womb are the most innocent and over 45 million have been legally killed in the United States since Roe vs Wade. Modern churches are more accepting of moral deterioration, but that doesn't mean the moral deterioration is wrong.
Why are you so insulting and angry? If anything I'm the one who should be angry at you for wanting to kill children before they can even enter the world.
You say "The law of the land also says that a fetus is not a human, thus it is not murder." That was an argument for the 70s. We know a human is created at the moment of conception when a sperm meets an egg and fertilization is complete. A unique human being with his/her own DNA is created at that moment. The only result from this union will be a human being, not a plant or an animal. The term "fetus" is only used to describe a stage of growth of a human. There are many others, such as blastocyst, zygote, embryo, toddler, infant, teenager, adult. According to proAbortion arguments people should be allowed to kill humans during the first 4 stages of growth. Why not any stages after? A human is a human, it doesn't matter what stage we are in, we are always human.
I don't have to have/deliver a baby to be able to speak for him/her. By your own argument you are admitting that one has a "baby", a human being, not a blob of tissue as so many pretend a baby is while he/she is while in the womb.
"baby inside your body for 9 months"
So you are stating the killing of a human being is okay if it is convenient due to circumstances, such as poverty or desire. Modern society is being taught this ideology of and culture of death. The only point in the abortion argument is that we are talking about killing human beings and by your own admission you state the possible reasons for wanting to do so. It's amazing you can look someone in the eye and tell them you have the right to kill a child because you don't want to go through the trouble or expense to bring him/her into the world.
"And you got this right from whom??"
I have the right to speak for babies from God and government. Killing is murder. You do not have the right to demand their execution.
"One of God's laws says REMEMBER the Sabbath and keep it holy!! Unless you keep the Saturday Sabbath, you are breaking God's Law."
I do remember the Sabbath. The Jewish Sabbath is on Saturday and the Christian Sabbath is on Sunday. I observe the Christian Sabbath. I may not be perfect and do everything right, but I do what I can to honor God on that day.
"What is the difference in your little mind??"
Can we keep down the insults please?
"That's right Peter, have one law for the rich and another for the poor. That's why those stupid lawmakers listen to you. Vote for us, and we'll help you out. Of course the frigging law will never apply to us, but we'll humor you clowns."
It isn't a matter of having one law for the rich and another for the poor. When abortion is made illegal it will be illegal for all. Just because the rich can afford to kill their children by flying to another country doesn't make it a "pro rich" policy. For a fee you can have anyone at any age killed. That doesn't mean you should do it.
I don't know if you watch politics, but Democrats typically vote over 90% of the time for proAbortion laws while Republicans typically vote 90% of the time for proLife laws. The Democrat abortion money machine is well oiled and funded by the government while the proLife lobby doesn't have 1/1000th of the finances. As a matter of fact it is almost entirely funded by donations. The Monthly Call for Life at http://www.marchtogether.com project is only financed by me. Planned Parenthood gets over 300 million dollars a year from taxpayers which they use to promote their "business" in our schools. They also earn profits of over 300 million dollars a year on killing our nations youth through abortions. The money machine includes condom manufacturers, birth control manufacturers and more. The proAbortion movement is completely funded while the proLife movement is not. The only products proLifers sell are books and t-shirts but we aren't allowed to hand them out in the schools like proAborts hand out condoms and birth control pills.
"Then call the FDA and get the morning after drug approved. It only stops the egg being fertilized."
One of the methods of the morning after pill is that it stops the implantation of the fertilized egg into the uterus. This pill and the birth control pill have been sold as a solution to pregnancy for years and it has been a lie. They do not tell people that method which is well described in the physicians desk reference. Go here for information on that:
http://www.pilltruth.com/
"The law of the land also says that a fetus is not a human, thus it is not murder."
The law of the land is wrong. Just because slavery was the law of the land it doesn't mean it was right.
"Who cares what your book of fables says."
My book of fables? Why do you purport to be a Christian? Jesus is a Jew and believes in Jewish law. The New Testament obviously came out well after Jesus died and returned to earth so what Bible do you think he held in his hand? What laws do you think he obeyed?
"Your book of fables tells you that if you break the Sabbath day, you should be put to death. That doesn't stop you."
There are many things in the bible we don't do today. Did the message about right and wrong change? For thousands of years the laws of the Ten Commandments still hold true. In the past we may have killed or cut off the hands of those who didn't obey the laws, but Jesus came to Earth and said we should love one another. We are learning that the laws are meant for us to understand and deal with personally, not meant for us to impose on or condemn others. There are laws which are the "law of the land" though that we must obey in order for society to function. If we don't have human consequences for theft, murder and other crimes, they would continue and we would have modern day Sodom and Gomorrah. Look at the situation with pedophiles. We release them after raping young children only for many of them to rape and kill many more later on. We have to be protected from individuals like those.
"What's that got to do with anything. I know lots of people who share life with God and are happy, and don't think you have any right to tell them what they can and can't do."
I can't tell you not to have an affair. I can't tell you not to do anything which I believe is morally wrong but is within law, unless it harms me or a fellow human being. You want to kill humans because they are inconvenient. This is what Nazis believed.
"Which God is that?? Would it be the one that told Joshua to kill all the people, but it was O.K. to keep the virgins for themselves."
There are some things in the Bible I don't understand. That is one of them. It has nothing to do with the current debate though.
"I remember Jesus, my Savior, telling me, that not one little bit of the law would pass, until Heaven and Earth passed away."
"Tell me again, why you break the Sabbath law??"
You angrily demand I keep the Sabbath or I have no right to defend innocent human beings. My personal religious issues have nothing to do with preventing people from being murdered. You can't demand I meet your criteria in order for me to demand you stop killing innocent human beings.
I believe in God. I believe in God's laws and do my best to obey them. If I disobey any of them and impose personal shame on me that is one thing. If I disobey laws and cause harm to someone else that is another issue and we have the laws of mankind which address those. If I cut my nails on the Sabbath it is breaking God's law, but obviously it isn't as bad as killing someone. Breaking the Sabbath hurts me, killing someone hurts them. Completely different situations.
"God bless you also hypocrite."
I don't think Jesus would say it that way. :)
"Jesus says keep all the commandments, not pick and choose."
I agree and do my best to get close to God, one day at a time.
Abortion is murder and there is no defense for murder.
Join us at http://www.marchtogether.com/ for the Monthly Call for Life. Like I said before, we will end this argument through our unity, our voices and our keyboards!
Peter
Join us at http://www.marchtogether.com for the Monthly Call for Life. We will end this argument through our unity, our voices and our keyboards!
The first question I have to ask is why are you in a Catholic newsgroup? Your hatred for God is obvious and yet you are here to read what those who believe in God have to say. You quote scripture as a weapon from a "book of fables".
You cannot be a believer of God and want to kill babies at the same time. Human beings in the womb are the most innocent and over 45 million have been legally killed in the United States since Roe vs Wade. Modern churches are more accepting of moral deterioration, but that doesn't mean the moral deterioration is wrong.
Why are you so insulting and angry? If anything I'm the one who should be angry at you for wanting to kill children before they can even enter the world.
You say "The law of the land also says that a fetus is not a human, thus it is not murder." That was an argument for the 70s. We know a human is created at the moment of conception when a sperm meets an egg and fertilization is complete. A unique human being with his/her own DNA is created at that moment. The only result from this union will be a human being, not a plant or an animal. The term "fetus" is only used to describe a stage of growth of a human. There are many others, such as blastocyst, zygote, embryo, toddler, infant, teenager, adult. According to proAbortion arguments people should be allowed to kill humans during the first 4 stages of growth. Why not any stages after? A human is a human, it doesn't matter what stage we are in, we are always human.
I don't have to have/deliver a baby to be able to speak for him/her. By your own argument you are admitting that one has a "baby", a human being, not a blob of tissue as so many pretend a baby is while he/she is while in the womb.
"baby inside your body for 9 months"
So you are stating the killing of a human being is okay if it is convenient due to circumstances, such as poverty or desire. Modern society is being taught this ideology of and culture of death. The only point in the abortion argument is that we are talking about killing human beings and by your own admission you state the possible reasons for wanting to do so. It's amazing you can look someone in the eye and tell them you have the right to kill a child because you don't want to go through the trouble or expense to bring him/her into the world.
"And you got this right from whom??"
I have the right to speak for babies from God and government. Killing is murder. You do not have the right to demand their execution.
"One of God's laws says REMEMBER the Sabbath and keep it holy!! Unless you keep the Saturday Sabbath, you are breaking God's Law."
I do remember the Sabbath. The Jewish Sabbath is on Saturday and the Christian Sabbath is on Sunday. I observe the Christian Sabbath. I may not be perfect and do everything right, but I do what I can to honor God on that day.
"What is the difference in your little mind??"
Can we keep down the insults please?
"That's right Peter, have one law for the rich and another for the poor. That's why those stupid lawmakers listen to you. Vote for us, and we'll help you out. Of course the frigging law will never apply to us, but we'll humor you clowns."
It isn't a matter of having one law for the rich and another for the poor. When abortion is made illegal it will be illegal for all. Just because the rich can afford to kill their children by flying to another country doesn't make it a "pro rich" policy. For a fee you can have anyone at any age killed. That doesn't mean you should do it.
I don't know if you watch politics, but Democrats typically vote over 90% of the time for proAbortion laws while Republicans typically vote 90% of the time for proLife laws. The Democrat abortion money machine is well oiled and funded by the government while the proLife lobby doesn't have 1/1000th of the finances. As a matter of fact it is almost entirely funded by donations. The Monthly Call for Life at http://www.marchtogether.com project is only financed by me. Planned Parenthood gets over 300 million dollars a year from taxpayers which they use to promote their "business" in our schools. They also earn profits of over 300 million dollars a year on killing our nations youth through abortions. The money machine includes condom manufacturers, birth control manufacturers and more. The proAbortion movement is completely funded while the proLife movement is not. The only products proLifers sell are books and t-shirts but we aren't allowed to hand them out in the schools like proAborts hand out condoms and birth control pills.
"Then call the FDA and get the morning after drug approved. It only stops the egg being fertilized."
One of the methods of the morning after pill is that it stops the implantation of the fertilized egg into the uterus. This pill and the birth control pill have been sold as a solution to pregnancy for years and it has been a lie. They do not tell people that method which is well described in the physicians desk reference. Go here for information on that:
http://www.pilltruth.com/
"The law of the land also says that a fetus is not a human, thus it is not murder."
The law of the land is wrong. Just because slavery was the law of the land it doesn't mean it was right.
"Who cares what your book of fables says."
My book of fables? Why do you purport to be a Christian? Jesus is a Jew and believes in Jewish law. The New Testament obviously came out well after Jesus died and returned to earth so what Bible do you think he held in his hand? What laws do you think he obeyed?
"Your book of fables tells you that if you break the Sabbath day, you should be put to death. That doesn't stop you."
There are many things in the bible we don't do today. Did the message about right and wrong change? For thousands of years the laws of the Ten Commandments still hold true. In the past we may have killed or cut off the hands of those who didn't obey the laws, but Jesus came to Earth and said we should love one another. We are learning that the laws are meant for us to understand and deal with personally, not meant for us to impose on or condemn others. There are laws which are the "law of the land" though that we must obey in order for society to function. If we don't have human consequences for theft, murder and other crimes, they would continue and we would have modern day Sodom and Gomorrah. Look at the situation with pedophiles. We release them after raping young children only for many of them to rape and kill many more later on. We have to be protected from individuals like those.
"What's that got to do with anything. I know lots of people who share life with God and are happy, and don't think you have any right to tell them what they can and can't do."
I can't tell you not to have an affair. I can't tell you not to do anything which I believe is morally wrong but is within law, unless it harms me or a fellow human being. You want to kill humans because they are inconvenient. This is what Nazis believed.
"Which God is that?? Would it be the one that told Joshua to kill all the people, but it was O.K. to keep the virgins for themselves."
There are some things in the Bible I don't understand. That is one of them. It has nothing to do with the current debate though.
"I remember Jesus, my Savior, telling me, that not one little bit of the law would pass, until Heaven and Earth passed away."
"Tell me again, why you break the Sabbath law??"
You angrily demand I keep the Sabbath or I have no right to defend innocent human beings. My personal religious issues have nothing to do with preventing people from being murdered. You can't demand I meet your criteria in order for me to demand you stop killing innocent human beings.
I believe in God. I believe in God's laws and do my best to obey them. If I disobey any of them and impose personal shame on me that is one thing. If I disobey laws and cause harm to someone else that is another issue and we have the laws of mankind which address those. If I cut my nails on the Sabbath it is breaking God's law, but obviously it isn't as bad as killing someone. Breaking the Sabbath hurts me, killing someone hurts them. Completely different situations.
"God bless you also hypocrite."
I don't think Jesus would say it that way. :)
"Jesus says keep all the commandments, not pick and choose."
I agree and do my best to get close to God, one day at a time.
Abortion is murder and there is no defense for murder.
Join us at http://www.marchtogether.com/ for the Monthly Call for Life. Like I said before, we will end this argument through our unity, our voices and our keyboards!
Peter
posted by Peter Shinn at 6:24 AM
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