proLife Debate Points
Read all the way to the end so you can get the real "how to" when discussing abortion with others.
A person asked me today "Did you see the story about the newborn baby that was thrown in the trash can?"
I asked her, "why do you care about that particular story? After all, you believe in abortion, and if that girl had gone into an abortion clinic just 5 minutes before delivering that baby she could have killed it legally. "
She said "It's a horrible thing to do, to throw away a baby"
I said "It's just as horrible cutting a baby to pieces while the person is still in the womb".
Unfortunately a lot of people whom I know and respect still believe abortion is a good thing, so these conversations come up frequently. It's hard to tell friends and family about the successes I have had with the proLife movement, and the many compliments and words of encouragement I have received, when most of them disagree with me. Inevitably it comes out as if I am an aggressor trying to violate their rights.
When I told another friend today that I was looking forward to the end of abortion he said "well that's not going to happen". He added, "do you want women to go back to the days of the dark alleys, and coat hangers, and hurting themselves?".
I said "the baby gets hurt the most, he/she is dead afterwards".
"Besides that" I said "In 28 years, I have never met a woman who had an abortion who could look me in the eye and discuss abortion without her either breaking out in tears or working herself up into such an angry frenzy, that I knew if she had a gun she would shoot me".
"There is no piece in abortion" I said. "There is only a lifetime of what ifs". It is not possible for a woman to kill her child and live in quiet comfort afterwards. She will always know what she did."
This brings us to the biggest debate point in the world of abortion.
We say abortion kills people, they say anything in the womb isn't alive yet & is fair game to kill at any time all the way up to the moment of delivery.
Probably the best site for us to use is http://www.abortionisprolife.com/. These folks or this individual displays the pro abortion argument.
The first person chosen on this web site to give us the proAbortion lecture is Leonard Peikoff. There is a 10 minute argument for abortion by him there.
"Dr. Peikoff explains why pro-abortion is not primarily "pro-choice"; but pro-life."
This is a good one to get started. How can killing a human being be proLife?
On to the 10 minute argument:
1) "the embryo and the fetus are not human beings"
2) "the parents, specifically the mother, is a human being"
"that's it" he exclaims as if that's all you need to know and you can move along now. Why we have to listen to another 9.9 minutes I don't know. (it's really only 7.7 minutes)
"the embryo has no rights and the mother has all the rights in the declaration of Independence, including a right to dispose of tissue in her body as she chooses"
"If you deny a woman the right to abortion on demand you are sacrificing a human being to a lifeless cluster of cells"
"..sacrificing a mother who has rights to tissue that doesn't"
"if you want to call yourself a defender of life and the right to life you have to be proAbortion"
"abortion would be murder if the fetus were a person" "A fetus is not a person because of one fundamental fact, and that is the difference between the potential and the actual, between what can be and what is". "A sperm/egg combination is a potential human being." You can't say that a sperm has the rights of a human being simply because it might become one someday"
"tissue cluster"
"potential"
"an acorn is a potential oak tree but not an actual one"
"a cow is potentially a filet mignon"
"a waterfall is potentially electric power"
"iron ore in the ground has the potential to become steel girders"
"but no sane person will say let's build a house out of acorns"
"An embryo can become a person"
"You have to meet the requirements of being a person. You have to be a living organism, something that lives apart as an entity on its own"
"an independently existing biologically formed thing, that breathes, digests, moves and lives on its own"
When comparing humans to a robot he says "the robot doesn't move on its own" and surmises that therefore the robot isn't alive.
Okay, so that's the perspective from a person who lived when the earth was still flat. Oh yeah, it was a recording, they didn't have recordings back then did they?
It's amazing to me that there are people still alive today who believe such nonsense. The reason I say nonsense is because none of it makes any sense. It's like listening to a child speak.
Look at all the things he compares a person to:
> acorn
> waterfall
> iron ore
> cow
That's very spiritual, if you're into that kind of spiritualism, but not very factual.
I have the one simple argument for you to use with anyone you ever debate this issue with.
Life begins at the moment of conception. When sperm and egg mix, life is created. There aren't many informed people around who don't argue that point anymore. The only point they argue is whether or not we have the "right" to tell a woman what to do with her body. Also known as "right to privacy" through Roe vs Wade.
That doesn't mean that all living beings are meant to be born. Perhaps some are too weak or there are other circumstances which prevent the person from living until the day of birth, but the fact remains that the person who was created has a chance to live if there isn't outside intervention.
Abortion is one such intervention.
How can I say that life is created by the mixture of sperm and egg? Science, that's how. Every person on this planet has a unique set of DNA guaranteeing a persons individuality and existence as a unique human being. When your unique DNA is created by the mixture of sperm and egg you become a person.
We can't be compared to trees, rocks, iron or any other such items, because we are human beings.
That's not good enough for pro aborts though. They will say that it is only the "potential" of life and isn't actually life until it has "form" and is "self reliant". That stage, as determined by Roe vs Wade is 3 months, but pro aborts will kill children all the way up to the moment of birth if they can.
It's the old "blob of tissue" argument they hold onto with clutching fists.
Of course if you ask them to look at this "blob of tissue" in an abortion photograph they will accuse you of threatening to commit an act violence at them.
For those of you who aren't sure, you do already know, you are just researching and looking for the right answers because the world has been lying to you for so long. Hopefully you will have a calm proLifer opposite you to help guide you in the right direction. Or you can do a simple Yahoo search. Go ahead, do a simple search with the words "abortion lies".
I know you will come to the right conclusion, that being pregnant doesn't mean "I'm having a fetus!", it means "I'm having a baby!". :)
For those who argue for abortion and will argue it to their dying day, I will pray for you every day anyway. I'm sorry you never heard the truth and I'm sorry you will never know the meaning of love and peace that comes with wanting to help children be born. Your argument is for death. "Abortion is proLife" can't make sense and you know it.
How to discuss abortion
Most of the time all you have to calmly say is "it's not right to kill people in the womb". When they bring up the word "choice" ask them "choose what?"
Always remain calm. We are coming at it from the perspective of life, but they may have have killed one of their children in the womb and it could be painful. Not just a woman, but a man might have said to his girlfriend or wife "what are you going to do" and lives with those painful words forever after.
1) "I'm proLife but I believe in a woman's right to choose"
Choose what? They will hate this question and will try to dodge it. Calmly continue asking what their choice is. You can state that you choose life, so what is it that they are choosing?
2) "You are anti choice"
Okay, I'll go with that label, I don't mind at all being called "anti choice", do you mind going along with the same label from my direction? I am pro life, you are anti ??? let them fill it in themselves, don't' say anti life for them.
3) "It's not up to me to tell a woman what to do with her body"
It is up to us as a civilized world to stop people from killing their children. If people need counseling or financial support they should get it. Only Margaret Sanger, a proponent of Eugenics who wanted to get rid of the "feeble minded" and impoverished in America would go along with the argument that a person who is poor shouldn't have children.
4) "There are already too many people in the world"
That's no excuse for killing your children
5) "I don't have enough money"
It's not the child's fault
6) "Women will go back to back alley abortions"
That's an unfortunate and unnecessary choice
7) "It was an accident"
Sex doesn't happen to you, you make it happen
8) "I was raped"
The child shouldn't be killed because of someone else's actions
9) "The baby might be sick"
You don't know that & doctors are wrong many times. Don't kill the child because you "think" it might be sick.
The way to debate abortion is calmly and stay with the main point, that abortion kills a human being. All the other arguments that people will throw at you are only to try and distract you. If you don't hold ground that to protect life is a moral responsibility you will lose. Don't call people murderers or sinners, that only shuts them down. To us it is murder and a sin, but that is different then calling someone a murderer or a sinner.
Someone challenged me with that once. He said "you say abortion is murder and a moral sin, so are you calling a woman a murderer if she has one?". I said, I will not tell her she is a murderer. I will say abortion is killing an innocent child and therefore it is murder, and murder is a moral sin, but I'm not going to yell it in her face. . She can put 2 and 2 together herself. I don't have to push my finger into her chest. That would be cruel and wrong.
If you let the abortion debate break into a heated argument it's all over, so once again, like I say so many times, be calm. You don't know what the other person is thinking or has been through.
I have been debating abortion for 28 years since my child was taken away from me by the parents of my girlfriend who decided a baby wasn't in her best interests.
I had no "choice" in the matter and my child was killed.
I will never forget.
Which brings me to end of article rant. The only way we are going to end abortion is through our proLife unity. The time to step up and speak for Life is now! Join us at http://www.marchtogether.com. We know how we are going to end abortion. You're either a part of the solution or you're hiding from your own responsibility and you have no right to debate the issue!
Well, I know there are plenty of you already doing your part for the proLife world, so I'm not dig'n on all of you. :)
But I am saying we ALL need to get together to do our part. If you are working in woman's ministry, health care, pregnancy centers, proLife websites, proLife blogs or are working in the proLife world in any way, you still have to speak up in the Monthly Call for Life at http://www.marchtogether.com.
Why is now the time? Because we didn't have the Internet before. With the Internet you can email your friends, they can email their friends and before you know it, we will have a million people calling our representatives!
Spread the word and get excited...with all our voices calling out at once we will win this battle!
http://www.marchtogether.com
A person asked me today "Did you see the story about the newborn baby that was thrown in the trash can?"
I asked her, "why do you care about that particular story? After all, you believe in abortion, and if that girl had gone into an abortion clinic just 5 minutes before delivering that baby she could have killed it legally. "
She said "It's a horrible thing to do, to throw away a baby"
I said "It's just as horrible cutting a baby to pieces while the person is still in the womb".
Unfortunately a lot of people whom I know and respect still believe abortion is a good thing, so these conversations come up frequently. It's hard to tell friends and family about the successes I have had with the proLife movement, and the many compliments and words of encouragement I have received, when most of them disagree with me. Inevitably it comes out as if I am an aggressor trying to violate their rights.
When I told another friend today that I was looking forward to the end of abortion he said "well that's not going to happen". He added, "do you want women to go back to the days of the dark alleys, and coat hangers, and hurting themselves?".
I said "the baby gets hurt the most, he/she is dead afterwards".
"Besides that" I said "In 28 years, I have never met a woman who had an abortion who could look me in the eye and discuss abortion without her either breaking out in tears or working herself up into such an angry frenzy, that I knew if she had a gun she would shoot me".
"There is no piece in abortion" I said. "There is only a lifetime of what ifs". It is not possible for a woman to kill her child and live in quiet comfort afterwards. She will always know what she did."
This brings us to the biggest debate point in the world of abortion.
We say abortion kills people, they say anything in the womb isn't alive yet & is fair game to kill at any time all the way up to the moment of delivery.
Probably the best site for us to use is http://www.abortionisprolife.com/. These folks or this individual displays the pro abortion argument.
The first person chosen on this web site to give us the proAbortion lecture is Leonard Peikoff. There is a 10 minute argument for abortion by him there.
"Dr. Peikoff explains why pro-abortion is not primarily "pro-choice"; but pro-life."
This is a good one to get started. How can killing a human being be proLife?
On to the 10 minute argument:
1) "the embryo and the fetus are not human beings"
2) "the parents, specifically the mother, is a human being"
"that's it" he exclaims as if that's all you need to know and you can move along now. Why we have to listen to another 9.9 minutes I don't know. (it's really only 7.7 minutes)
"the embryo has no rights and the mother has all the rights in the declaration of Independence, including a right to dispose of tissue in her body as she chooses"
"If you deny a woman the right to abortion on demand you are sacrificing a human being to a lifeless cluster of cells"
"..sacrificing a mother who has rights to tissue that doesn't"
"if you want to call yourself a defender of life and the right to life you have to be proAbortion"
"abortion would be murder if the fetus were a person" "A fetus is not a person because of one fundamental fact, and that is the difference between the potential and the actual, between what can be and what is". "A sperm/egg combination is a potential human being." You can't say that a sperm has the rights of a human being simply because it might become one someday"
"tissue cluster"
"potential"
"an acorn is a potential oak tree but not an actual one"
"a cow is potentially a filet mignon"
"a waterfall is potentially electric power"
"iron ore in the ground has the potential to become steel girders"
"but no sane person will say let's build a house out of acorns"
"An embryo can become a person"
"You have to meet the requirements of being a person. You have to be a living organism, something that lives apart as an entity on its own"
"an independently existing biologically formed thing, that breathes, digests, moves and lives on its own"
When comparing humans to a robot he says "the robot doesn't move on its own" and surmises that therefore the robot isn't alive.
Okay, so that's the perspective from a person who lived when the earth was still flat. Oh yeah, it was a recording, they didn't have recordings back then did they?
It's amazing to me that there are people still alive today who believe such nonsense. The reason I say nonsense is because none of it makes any sense. It's like listening to a child speak.
Look at all the things he compares a person to:
> acorn
> waterfall
> iron ore
> cow
That's very spiritual, if you're into that kind of spiritualism, but not very factual.
I have the one simple argument for you to use with anyone you ever debate this issue with.
Life begins at the moment of conception. When sperm and egg mix, life is created. There aren't many informed people around who don't argue that point anymore. The only point they argue is whether or not we have the "right" to tell a woman what to do with her body. Also known as "right to privacy" through Roe vs Wade.
That doesn't mean that all living beings are meant to be born. Perhaps some are too weak or there are other circumstances which prevent the person from living until the day of birth, but the fact remains that the person who was created has a chance to live if there isn't outside intervention.
Abortion is one such intervention.
How can I say that life is created by the mixture of sperm and egg? Science, that's how. Every person on this planet has a unique set of DNA guaranteeing a persons individuality and existence as a unique human being. When your unique DNA is created by the mixture of sperm and egg you become a person.
We can't be compared to trees, rocks, iron or any other such items, because we are human beings.
That's not good enough for pro aborts though. They will say that it is only the "potential" of life and isn't actually life until it has "form" and is "self reliant". That stage, as determined by Roe vs Wade is 3 months, but pro aborts will kill children all the way up to the moment of birth if they can.
It's the old "blob of tissue" argument they hold onto with clutching fists.
Of course if you ask them to look at this "blob of tissue" in an abortion photograph they will accuse you of threatening to commit an act violence at them.
For those of you who aren't sure, you do already know, you are just researching and looking for the right answers because the world has been lying to you for so long. Hopefully you will have a calm proLifer opposite you to help guide you in the right direction. Or you can do a simple Yahoo search. Go ahead, do a simple search with the words "abortion lies".
I know you will come to the right conclusion, that being pregnant doesn't mean "I'm having a fetus!", it means "I'm having a baby!". :)
For those who argue for abortion and will argue it to their dying day, I will pray for you every day anyway. I'm sorry you never heard the truth and I'm sorry you will never know the meaning of love and peace that comes with wanting to help children be born. Your argument is for death. "Abortion is proLife" can't make sense and you know it.
How to discuss abortion
Most of the time all you have to calmly say is "it's not right to kill people in the womb". When they bring up the word "choice" ask them "choose what?"
Always remain calm. We are coming at it from the perspective of life, but they may have have killed one of their children in the womb and it could be painful. Not just a woman, but a man might have said to his girlfriend or wife "what are you going to do" and lives with those painful words forever after.
1) "I'm proLife but I believe in a woman's right to choose"
Choose what? They will hate this question and will try to dodge it. Calmly continue asking what their choice is. You can state that you choose life, so what is it that they are choosing?
2) "You are anti choice"
Okay, I'll go with that label, I don't mind at all being called "anti choice", do you mind going along with the same label from my direction? I am pro life, you are anti ??? let them fill it in themselves, don't' say anti life for them.
3) "It's not up to me to tell a woman what to do with her body"
It is up to us as a civilized world to stop people from killing their children. If people need counseling or financial support they should get it. Only Margaret Sanger, a proponent of Eugenics who wanted to get rid of the "feeble minded" and impoverished in America would go along with the argument that a person who is poor shouldn't have children.
4) "There are already too many people in the world"
That's no excuse for killing your children
5) "I don't have enough money"
It's not the child's fault
6) "Women will go back to back alley abortions"
That's an unfortunate and unnecessary choice
7) "It was an accident"
Sex doesn't happen to you, you make it happen
8) "I was raped"
The child shouldn't be killed because of someone else's actions
9) "The baby might be sick"
You don't know that & doctors are wrong many times. Don't kill the child because you "think" it might be sick.
The way to debate abortion is calmly and stay with the main point, that abortion kills a human being. All the other arguments that people will throw at you are only to try and distract you. If you don't hold ground that to protect life is a moral responsibility you will lose. Don't call people murderers or sinners, that only shuts them down. To us it is murder and a sin, but that is different then calling someone a murderer or a sinner.
Someone challenged me with that once. He said "you say abortion is murder and a moral sin, so are you calling a woman a murderer if she has one?". I said, I will not tell her she is a murderer. I will say abortion is killing an innocent child and therefore it is murder, and murder is a moral sin, but I'm not going to yell it in her face. . She can put 2 and 2 together herself. I don't have to push my finger into her chest. That would be cruel and wrong.
If you let the abortion debate break into a heated argument it's all over, so once again, like I say so many times, be calm. You don't know what the other person is thinking or has been through.
I have been debating abortion for 28 years since my child was taken away from me by the parents of my girlfriend who decided a baby wasn't in her best interests.
I had no "choice" in the matter and my child was killed.
I will never forget.
Which brings me to end of article rant. The only way we are going to end abortion is through our proLife unity. The time to step up and speak for Life is now! Join us at http://www.marchtogether.com. We know how we are going to end abortion. You're either a part of the solution or you're hiding from your own responsibility and you have no right to debate the issue!
Well, I know there are plenty of you already doing your part for the proLife world, so I'm not dig'n on all of you. :)
But I am saying we ALL need to get together to do our part. If you are working in woman's ministry, health care, pregnancy centers, proLife websites, proLife blogs or are working in the proLife world in any way, you still have to speak up in the Monthly Call for Life at http://www.marchtogether.com.
Why is now the time? Because we didn't have the Internet before. With the Internet you can email your friends, they can email their friends and before you know it, we will have a million people calling our representatives!
Spread the word and get excited...with all our voices calling out at once we will win this battle!
http://www.marchtogether.com
posted by Peter Shinn at 10:59 AM
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